Talk:GN-007 Arios Gundam
Okay,I've changed some of the weapon names and descriptions of the weapons,specifically the GN Vulcans. The GN Vulcans are not located on top of Arios,they're located on on each side of the GN Cannon as shown in figures in the HG GNHW Arios manual.Its pointed out directly for us. As for the weapon on the front of Arios in Flight Mode,its called the GN Beam Rifle.The manual points this out directly to us in plain English. Here's the picture in question,in case anybody have any doubts.SonicSP 15:35, September 10, 2009 (UTC) However, Arios does in fact have a pair of beam vulcans on the outsides of its pincer claw in flight mode. Allelujah utilizes them while docked with GN Archer in S2 episode 23. It happens when the Gundams begin their assault on the Celestial Being mothership. --T-Prayer 18:01, September 13, 2009 (UTC) You guys should know by now that not everything is clear cut. There are many times when the anime differed from the specs from the manuals and/or the boxes of the gunpla. Add whatever was mentioned within the manual, but also look through the episodes to notice anything that wasn't mentioned, perhaps additional vulcans or features that were clearly seen, but not mentioned in the gunpla boxes or manuals. Wasabi 18:41, September 13, 2009 (UTC) Breaking the entry up Why has it been decided that this article should be broken into smaller pieces? Is it the volume of information covered, the number of sub topics, or something a bit more subtle? Nkuzmik 17:21, September 24, 2009 (UTC) Optional equipment Why is it listed that Arios work with the GN Arms as well as an Assault Container? So far as I know, none of the gen 4 Gundams can use a GN Arms, or an Assault Container. Nkuzmik 17:27, September 24, 2009 (UTC) The GN Arms and Assault Container works together, plus, just because it's not used in the series doesn't mean it's not optional. There are a load of arsenal and optional weapons that were designed to be universal amongst Gundams. You should check out the features of XN Raiser, that thing can attach to all Gundams. If there's a huge vote against such info, then I'll edit it out, but logically it makes sense doesn't it? Just because a particular Gundam doesn't usually use a particular component doesn't mean it's not usable at all. Wasabi 21:35, September 24, 2009 (UTC) I don't mean to be harsh but a lack of evidence for the negative is not evidence for the positive. For example, is there any evidence that Virtue couldn't mount Kyrios' Tail Booster? Okay, sure it would be back-heavy but out in space, that would speed boost would be a big help to Virtue. I'm not saying you are wrong. I am just saying that the way you are making your case isn't very strong Nkuzmik 13:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC) Unless there is any further protest, I'm going to remove the references to Arios being able to use a GN Arms and an Assault Container--Nkuzmik 13:04, October 5, 2009 (UTC) What about the XN Raiser? SonicSP 18:32, October 14, 2009 (UTC) :I don't see any justification for its removal. It was designed, if not actually built to work in conjunction with all the Gen 4 gundams--Nkuzmik 18:49, October 14, 2009 (UTC) Should we add GN Archer to 00 as well and the XN Raiser to Susanowo? I think I saw them it in a magazine picture,if that is what we are using.SonicSP 06:23, October 15, 2009 (UTC) XN Raiser was clearly stated as a MS support unit for Celestial Being, it's just a toy gimmick ability that certain CB accessories can GATTAI! with opposing MS/MA units in the 00 story. GN Archer's missile pack can be docked onto 00 Gundam, but that's a gunpla ability. If we're going to start using logic like that, then any components with a hard point can mix up weaponry and abilities then, too confusing to even try. My original case was that GN Arms and other GN accessories in CB can technically be used by other units. All their beam sabers are manufactured the same and can be shared amongst Gundams and support units. GN Arms doubles as a support fighter and a mobile armor in S1. While it's true it wasn't used in S2, it technically still can be used and that's why I put it under optional equipments; certain people argue that sort of technicality shouldn't be added in or considered since it was never used within the anime. Running on that logic, then the GN Field ability of Arios shouldn't be added as Arios never once utilize that function; it clearly states in the manual that it can. The Assault Container is another support unit. That thing is a miniature personal MS assault carrier that can take a Gundam from space-to-earth and vice-versa. Even though it was never used again, it's still a optional tool, but once again people argue since it's not used, then it shouldn't be bothered listed. That's like saying a soldier can't use any of it's previous accessories because of upgraded equipment. Just because it's not used, doesn't mean the guy can't use them. I'll be listing up the magazine pages very soon, that way we can all avoid erroneous editions. Wasabi 08:08, October 15, 2009 (UTC) :You use the argument that a soldier can still use old equipment along with new equipment. While you can cite examples to back your case, I can also cite examples to the contrary. Your example of a single soldier is very suited to your case. Obviously a person can mix and match equipment from different generations like wearing an old shirt and new boots, however what he cannot do is mix and match components to a given system. He cannot use accessories for his M-16 on his M-1 without modification. I add the caveat of modification because with enough customization, just about anything can be done. A closer example would be larger systems such as aircraft. :The F-16A Block 15 is quite different from the Block 10 aircraft. It has a different tail configuration, and additional hardpoints. This required changes to the aircraft's skin to maintain aerodynamic integrity as well internal structure to support the additional mass. The extra hardpoints meant that a new wiring harness had to be made. A thicker harness means some of the wire races needed to be expanded. :The Block 20 incorporates a radically redesigned computer system that moves much of the hardware into one location rather than scattered about the aircraft. :The Block 30 uses a totally new engine, and redesigned air intake. :As military aircraft progress, they actually DO loose capabilities. Early jet powered aircraft had far inferior range to their piston driven predecessors. Even today, piston driven aircraft are superior for small or unimproved airstrips. The F-4 Phantom falls short of its predecessor in a number of ways. It originally had no gun, only missiles. It was designed for the "missile duel" that was anticipated by the experts of the day and as such had poor visibility, and poor low speed handling characteristics. So that even when a gun was retrofitted on, it was still a poor dogfighter. :The Air Force replaced the F-4 with the F-15 in the late 70's. By that point the F-4 had evolved into a multi-role aircraft with several ground attack missions. When introduced, the F-15 had no ground attack capability whatsoever. Okay, the pilot could strafe with the gun, but no bombs or ground attack missiles. Even if you could hang them on the wing, the plane wouldn't know what to do with them. :Today's newest fighters, the F-22 and the F-35 are in some ways less capable than the aircraft they replace. The F-22 is not as fast as its predecessor, nor can if fly as high. The F-35 cannot carry as many weapons as the plane it replaces, nor can it fly as high or fast. :Both the F-15 and the F-16 have the option of installing an external, conformal fuel tank. Neither of their replacements can use any form of conformal fuel tank. :With the replacement of the F-14 by the F/A-18E, the US military has no way of launching a Phoenix long range air-to-air missile. :I submit that it is in fact very common that military designers deem some capabilities to be of less value than others when designing the next generation. :There is evidence of this within OO universe. Visual evidence shows that Virtue charges its GN Bazooka by interfacing with weapon with the GN drive via connectors on the chest. Seravee has a radically different chest structure with no evidence of said connectors. Ergo Seravee, the direct decedent of Virtue, cannot use Virtue's Bazooka. :In making your case, you have made a fallacy of composition. You have used the data that Exia and Dynames can use a GN Arms, to infer that all CB Gundams can do so. The existence of two GN Arms units, one built specifically for Dynames and one for Exia, along with dialogue suggests that GN Arms for Virtue and Kyrios had been at least considered. However there is no evidence, be it anime, manga, official statistics, model instructions, etc, to verify that Virtue and Kyrios can use a GN Arms. :As the party making the assertion of a fact, the burden of proof lies with you, sir. Your only support comes from an appeal to consequences, that "it would be really smart for CB's engineers to have done X."--Nkuzmik 14:43, October 15, 2009 (UTC) ::A bit off topic,but about one part of Wasabi's statement,I've never heard of Arios having the GN Field ability at all,I think you mean Arios's Beam Shield which was never used defensively.Kyrios,however,does have the GN Field ability seen in the anime. ::Regarding the larger topic,this is my take on the subject:I think it should be in the optional equipment list either if its a)Used in the anime or sidestories b)Mentioned to be designed for or intended use ::And personally,I think in conjunction to either of those,it needs a lineart.Hence,why I think 00 Archer,Arios+GN Buster Sword III,and Kyrios GN Arms does not qualify. ::So,yes, while there is a distinct possibility that the Exia could use the GN Submachinegun or Virtue could use the GN Sniper Rifle or Dynames using the Tail Booster.There have been little confirmation that they could,certainly not enough to be mentioned.If you think about it, all GN MS has a distinct possibility to use all GN Weapons from all factions,but that does not necessaily mean they can,and everything falls under the "what if" category.Not outright impossible,but certainly not close enough to a "definitely can".-SonicSP 04:51, October 16, 2009 (UTC) About the Info-Box and Arios' Type There's been a sweep over most (if not all) the MS pages with the standardized info-box. What always annoyed me about the info-box is that when you try to list specifics as what the mobile suit does, it will likely arrange the words on the Type box; the results aren't as pretty. Even though what editors put in aren't technically wrong, it makes everything feel jumbled like Custom Aerial Transformable Combat Mobile Weapon-doesn't that just sounds off to you guys or is it just me? It's because of this that I tend to change it and simply type in Transformable Aerial Combat Mobile Suit-specifically descriptive and doesn't feel jumbled don't you think? I understand it's just semantics, but I wanted to get your opinions about this matter because some feel I should change it back the way it was, your thoughts would be appreciated. If you guys feel I should let the info box do it's "magic", then the next editor can freely type-box away without me tweaking something. Wasabi 16:47, October 4, 2009 (UTC) :First off.. it was Custom Aerial Combat Transformable Mobile Weapon which i will agree shouldn't really have the word custom if it is a gundam; also I agree with you putting transformable in the front. But in the case of whether it is a mobile weapon or not, I think that if it transforms, then it is both an mobile armor and a mobile suit, and by that definition it is in a combination group called mobile weapon. I'm open to suggestions to something besides the term mobile weapon if the term will fit both being an armor, and a suit. Simant 19:29, October 4, 2009 (UTC) Simant, you got a point about Arios' ambiguous nature of it's make. So yeah, go ahead with the mobile weapon part. Another matter is that Bandai always officially list the type of their Gundams as well. Do we following official naming schemes or name it based on its characteristics? Wasabi 19:45, October 4, 2009 (UTC) :Well I'm not sure what you mean that they list the type of gundam, could you show me an example? Also, i already changed the template to include transformable as the first word in the unit type. Simant 20:06, October 4, 2009 (UTC) Ok, whenever you buy a Gundam, the papers or the side of the box officially labels which type is the MS. For example, if you buy the gunpla of Cherudim Gundam GNHW, even though I argue its really a heavy artillery MS, it's official stamp is just Sniper, get what I mean? So would you label it heavy artillery or stick with it's box-made type, listed in the gunpla papers? Even if not in the papers, there's also the Gundam 00P, 00V, and 00F, the magazines also list their types as well. How do we go with that? Wasabi 02:42, October 5, 2009 (UTC) :I'd stick with artillery. since sniper = guns = artillery, but im not sure how we would determine which artillery is "heavy" since i mean all the guns used by mobile suits in gundam in the real world would be considered heavy artillery. Simant 16:52, October 5, 2009 (UTC) ::never mind - see Talk:GN-006 Cherudim Gundam Simant 16:55, October 5, 2009 (UTC) Translations Needed File:00V Arios Gundam Ascalon.jpg File:00V Arios Gundam Ascalon II.jpg File:00V Arios Gundam Ascalon III.jpg File:00V Arios Gundam Ascalon IV.jpg File:Arios GNHW (1).jpg Uploaded the article for translations and in case something was missed in the page. Wasabi 04:32, October 16, 2009 (UTC) Trans Am Before I commented out the Trans Am info, I brought up the suggestion the Trans Am talk page. I did this because we had something like a dozen different places where Trans Am was explained, and that doesn't count the actual page dedicated to Trans Am. It is redundant information that just bloats the article. --Nkuzmik 13:57, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Similarly, there are 24 separate explanations of what GN vulcans are. If we look at literature on contemporary military equipment, all that is listed is that a vehicle carries a particular weapon. Literature on that weapon goes into greater detail. Some texts will have a small in-text description but not in the statistics section. Now I am not saying we should make an article for every single weapon but perhaps a single page listing common items such as beam sabers, GN Vulcans, GN shields, and defense rods. --Nkuzmik 15:05, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Simmilarities to other suits Is it really needed to say that flight mode is simmilar to Zeta's waverider mode? I mean it says so on almost every page of MSs that have some sort of flight mode. Having transformation ability is not enough to state such simmilarity IMHO. Same applies to certain attack's simmilarity to that of Strike Freedom. It's just an attack, and on top of that it was performed by 00 Raiser too. Having such simmilarity pointed out would mean we should also say that Arios is simmilar to THE Gundam as it has forehead-mounted antenna, red crystal thingy, face-mask, rifle that shoots beams and beam saber. -YessMasster 14:42, February 28, 2010 (UTC) GN-007 + GNR-101A Archer Arios If anyone has a (recent, reliable) proof that this is not the official name of one of Arios' variant, please share it here. Archer Arios is the name given during th episode 18 and 22 from the 2nd season of Gundam 00, and from what I know, there are no change given yet. So yeah, let me know. Bronx01 17:32, March 31, 2010 (UTC) GN-007 IS Arios. Arios is Arios. Archer is Archer. And Archer+Arios=Archer Arios. You sighned "Arios" where must be only Archer. If you want to use this name, you must separate this two different things. "GN-007 + GNR-101A Archer" = "Archer Arios" -- Rimus 17:39, March 31, 2010 (UTC) GN-007 is Arios and GNR-101A is GN Archer. And I know those. But the given name for their combination is Archer Arios, and I have not seen any official changes to that. I am not going by assumption here. It was given by the episodes. --Bronx01 17:44, March 31, 2010 (UTC) I surrender. I can't talk with solid wall. Someone, explain him... -- Rimus 17:48, March 31, 2010 (UTC) In, which case you're also wrong; its not GN-007 + GNR-101A Archer, but GN-007 + GNR-101A Arios Gundam + GN Archer. Atleast I given the proof of my claim. Thanks for the image --Bronx01 18:07, March 31, 2010 (UTC) You wrong! It's "GNR-101A Arios Gundam + GNR-101A Arios Gundam" or "GN-007 + GNR-101A" or "GN-007 + GNR-101A Archer" It's all the same! Cuz "GN-007" is "Arios", and "GNR-101A" is "GN Archer". There is no such a thing like "GNR-101A Archer Arios". -- Rimus 18:12, March 31, 2010 (UTC) You need to calm down. You have given me the image that the name is GN-007 + GNR-101A Arios Gundam + GN Archer. It's all good. --Bronx01 18:16, March 31, 2010 (UTC) I'm quite short tempered. In picture signed "GN-007 + GNR-101A" and below "Arios Gundam + GN Archer" -- Rimus 18:21, March 31, 2010 (UTC) Storage area for Beam Sabers? Arios GNHW (1).jpg|The Area in the picture, where the Beam Sabers are stored! HG Arios Gundam Model Kit were the Beam Sabers are stored.jpg|Another picture showing my point! I've have been wondering, it says on Arios page that the Beam Sabers are stored on the thighs. Is there any official info that actually says its stored on the thighs and not on the front skirt? I know the model kit & their manuals are a more reliable source then just pure speculation. Dav7d2 00:14, November 23, 2010 (UTC) :It's on the front skirt in the model kit (which I also personally own), and I see no reason to doubt it. I personally have not heard where this thigh thing is coming from, but that's just me. This is a wiki afterall, there will be times where the article will not match what the known facts are. -SonicSP 10:32, November 23, 2010 (UTC) I Thought Arios Was Named After This Guy? Wikipedia:Arius I'm no expert in these matters, but it sounds more likely than the Hebrew version stated in the Trivia section since this one seems to relate more towards the Christian theme that most of the S1 and S2 Gundams have. Still, I'm not a Christian so I'm not that knowledgeable in this field but the guy seems to be Christianity related somehow (even if not exactly mainstream). So what do you guys think? -SonicSP 17:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC) Arius was a Christian priest in Alexandria, Egypt in the early fourth century. -Dav7d2 17:36, December 7, 2010 (UTC) : The other Gundam's names (atleast the Seravee and Cherudim) came from Hebrew terms. --Bronx01 17:45, December 7, 2010 (UTC) If that was the case, then it makes sense then. -SonicSP 17:47, December 7, 2010 (UTC)